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#1
20-06-2014, 16:29
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Re: ¡¡ Perder La Quilla Es Inadmisible !!
Cita:
heres the version from onboard the keel-less boat, Polbream... a very nice skipper takes 4 complete novices, three of whom had never been on a yacht before, and one who had not been on one for about 26 years...and only then as a child. Skipper goes through all safety sfuff...we check the bilges and keel bolts all appear perfectly normal to skipper...we wouldnt have known if they were normal or not, but all four bolts are in place (from bilge side) and feel secure - wont move. After a good discussion as to our experiences and expectations, we leave the pontoon....skipper comments that boat handles badly, but he never been on this type before, so nobody thought any more of it. We headed over to the helford to pick up a mooring....we had main sail and genoa fully out, I'm afraid I cant remember the wind direction or strength, but it was less than the next day (F5 gusting 6), not much happening wind wise, so we motor into the Helford, no spare moorings, so we raft up to another boat, who we have a 'little bump' with, skippers have a chat, we novices raise our eyebrows and question who we have come sailing with (jokingly)....we make our evening meal, have a discussion about charts and navigation and a generally nice evening. Following morning, we have breakfast, our skipper and one next door have a chat about leaving the mooring, we leave, skipper motors round in a circle to demonstrate the poor handling of the boat...discssion continues about possible net around keel or rudder, we all nod on in agreeable ignorance. We head back out into the bay and skipper hands over helm to me, others get sails up main and genoa, 2 reefs, wind F5 gusting 6, I have a go at tacking and gybing...boat handles like ****e....but had no comparison at time, although specifically recalled my live aboard mum explaining that these boats are like 'bathtubs', hence I see no concern...until we broach...other newbies looking on with somewhat more fear, but no-one really knows that this isnt normal other than the skipper, who presumably was keeping us from panicing by saying nothing, and going below to get his phone. My instincts were that this wasnt right, but having not sailed since I was about 10 (other than a stetch type 22 frigate, but clearly doesnt offer a comparison). My instincts from windsurfing (again as a child) were to let the sails out...but as the skipper didnt suggest this neither did I. So I sailed into the wind (again must have been some childhood remnant of windsurfing) and we righted. Another strong gust and over we go again...this time I have to let go of the helm with one hand in order to stay in th boat. turn into thewind and request skipper takes the helm...he says you are doing fine, keep going and goes below to use phone. He comes back up when only gets answerphone message from office, and says he will call mobile number. All the time, I want to get the hell off the water...or at least get the sails down so we do not broach again. Skipper comes up having got hold of boss and says we will go into pontoon, for investigation. We get sails down...AT LAST..and motor in, skipper takes helm to birth against fuelling pontoon. Not the easiest of birthings, so he asks for working boat to take us to birth...working boat ties up to us and attempts to get us to birth. Skipper of working boat says he's struggling to manouver us, but after a few scrapes we get into birth. Some other guy come over and says 'shes not sitting right in the water' and skipper rom working boat walks round to pontoon behind us and says 'shes about 2 foot too high in the water'. Owner of CC comes to boat and suggests its a rudder problem. Our skipper says he thinks it more than that, a camera is rigged up to have a look, but battery flat...off it goes to be charged. 30 mins later it comes back but is not working. We are offered another boat to go out on, and decide to do this but keep all our provisions onboard Polbream and sleep there rather than waste more time moving everything. I personally felt that if I hadnt got out onto the water when we did, I probably never would have gone out again...get back on before you have time to think too much. So off we go, this time on a benetau oceanis clipper 331. Comparatively speaking, she handles like a dream, and my fears tha my helmsmanship isnt 'completely **** and causing us to broach' are somewhat alleviated. We have a great day, spend the night on Polbream, and next morning go out on oceanis again. We arrive back and find Polbream in slings...completely keel-less. I have to admit I was somewhat relieved that there was a problem, and it wasnt just my driving lol 
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#2
20-06-2014, 16:35
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Re: ¡¡ Perder La Quilla Es Inadmisible !!
No lo tienes en ruso?
__________________
Lo malo de las mentes cerradas es que siempre tienen la boca abierta
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#3
20-06-2014, 16:38
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Re: ¡¡ Perder La Quilla Es Inadmisible !!
Cita:
El traductor de google aunque no es ninguna maravilla te puede ayudar. Esta es una explicacion de porque no volco According to brochure specs here: http://www.jeanneau.fr/inventaire/br...080229_90_.pdf Ballast ratio is 30% (Polbream is the deep keel version) which is relatively low. A Contessa 32 (everyone's favourite comparison!) is 47% so if you lost your keel in a CO32 you'd ride comparatively higher. Modern boxy, beamy hulls have a higher Block Coefficient (ratio of actual displacement to disp of a box size of Lwl x Bwl x hull depth) and so rise and sink less when weight is added or taken away. This factor is known as sinkage or immersion (measured in Pounds per Inch Immersion) SO37 has a beam to length ratio of just under 3. Increased beam leads to increased stiffness intially (steeper/higher intial curve on GZ chart) but less self-righting ability and a lower angle of vanishing stability.Also in an older CO32 type with slacker bilges it would immediately feel more tender and possibly want to sit over on it's side. On a modern high volume hull the effect would be less noticeable. I would imagine the beam waterline would not be reduced as much by riding higher. The indication was there though in it's 'skaty' handling and increased turn radius. I would guess that even though 'knocked down' she just didn't reach her (keel-less) AVS and came up as a result of form stability alone. In beamy flat bottomed boats there is an enormous outward shift of the centre of buoyancy as the boat heels. Even a dinghy will come back up from 70-80 degrees if not flooded. A boat like the SO37 (in normal operation) is relying much more on form stability and much less on ballast than the CO32 type. Hence it's less devastating when the ballast exits stage right! Editado por manolouk en 20-06-2014 a las 16:41.
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| Los siguientes cofrades agradecieron este mensaje a manolouk | ||
ankaluze (20-06-2014) | ||
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#4
20-06-2014, 16:48
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Re: ¡¡ Perder La Quilla Es Inadmisible !!
Cita:
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#5
20-06-2014, 16:55
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Re: ¡¡ Perder La Quilla Es Inadmisible !!
No es traducible y la direccion http://www.jeanneau.fr/inventaire/br...080229_90_.pdf no existe
__________________
Lo malo de las mentes cerradas es que siempre tienen la boca abierta
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#6
20-06-2014, 16:58
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Re: ¡¡ Perder La Quilla Es Inadmisible !!
Pero me da igual, quitale la orza a un velero y verás que voltereta se pega, rapidamente desarbolaron el barco....y eso que estaba en tierra y con puntales....
__________________
Lo malo de las mentes cerradas es que siempre tienen la boca abierta
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#7
20-06-2014, 17:26
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Re: ¡¡ Perder La Quilla Es Inadmisible !!
Cita:
Te pongo el enlace de la web donde se publicó éste asunto, recuerda que la realidad supera a la ficción...un poco de fé... http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...e-boats/page17 Aquí la version traducida literal del traductor automático de Google: Relación de lastre es de 30% (el accidentado sun odyssey 37 es la versión de la quilla profunda), que es relativamente bajo. (En comparación de un prefirido de todos!) Un Contessa 32 es del 47% por lo que si usted perdió su quilla en un CO32 que te montas comparativamente mayor. Modernos, cascos mangudos y bastante "cuadrados" tienen un mayor coeficiente de bloque (relación de desplazamiento real a disp de un tamaño de la caja de Lwl x Bwl x profundidad casco) y así se elevan y se hunden menos cuando se agrega o quita peso. Este factor se conoce como el incremento de carena o inmersión (mide en libras por pulgada de inmersión) SO37 tiene una viga de relación de longitud de poco menos de 3. Aumento haz conduce a una mayor rigidez inicialmente (más empinada curva superior / intial en la carta GZ), pero menos capacidad de auto-enderezamiento y un menor ángulo de estabilidad nula. También en un tipo de CO32 mayor con sentinas slacker se sentiría de inmediato más tierna y posiblemente quiera sentarse encima en su lado. En un moderno casco de alto volumen, el efecto sería menos perceptible. Me imagino que la línea de flotación del haz no se reduciría como mucho por andar superior. La indicación fue allí, sin embargo en ella de handling 'Skaty' y una mayor radio de giro. Me imagino que a pesar de que 'derribado' ella no llegó a su AVS (-quilla menos) y se le ocurrió como resultado de la estabilidad de la forma por sí sola. En beamy barcos de fondo plano hay un enorme desplazamiento hacia fuera del centro de flotación como los talones en barco. Incluso un bote volverá hasta 70-80 grados si no inundado. Un barco como el SO37 (en servicio normal) se basa mucho más en la estabilidad de la forma y mucho menos en el lastre que el tipo de Cntesa32. Por lo tanto es menos devastador cuando por accidente se pierde la orza Editado por ankaluze en 20-06-2014 a las 17:37.
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